More veneration (or not)

So, thanks to everyone who responded to yesterday's post: I really appreciate the thought that people have clearly put into the comments. I've done some more thinking since yesterday, and the best way to explain some of that thought is to respond to some of your comments.

James wrote: "When you did so [kneeling to lead prayers], you did it in front of the Altar, not because you were worshipping the wooden table, but because it was an appropriate focus for your worship of God."

I find this interesting, because it's not why I did it at all. I knelt because I thought it was important to lead the congregation from a kneeling position, and I did it in front of the altar not because I saw it as an appropriate focus for my worship of God, but because if I'd knelt anywhere else, I would have been either hidden from view (by the altar) or separated physically from the congregation.

I can see why you thought I knelt there, and I wonder whether other people thought the same. It doesn't bother me that they might, but it's not why I did it.

Gary wrote: "Since the holy sacrament is the body and blood of our Lord, by definition we can (and should) pay reverence to it."

I disagree. I think that we should treat it with respect, and possibly lean towards showing reverence towards it (to employ James' original definition at face value), but I think that they word "pay" is a give-away here. Reverence, in practice, isn't as clear-cut as the definition seems to suggest. The cross is an object to which we do not owe anything. We only owe anything to God, not to physical objects.

The only exception might be the physical body of Christ, incarnated as a man, though he seems to have been pretty cagey about being treated specially, with the exception of washing and baptism, which are both actions which are extended to other people, too.

That said, I realise that I'm somewhat conflicted about this: I treat the physical book which comprises Bible, at least within a worship setting, with great respect - almost as much as the sacrament. I think this, however, is because or the importance I attach to the Word (which is contained within the Bible and which the Lord's Body in the sacrament is, of course). This is a pretty protestant position, I'd argue.

Sam talked about using icons as an aid to worship, and pointed to a useful blog entry about Corpus Christi.

I agree on this: and we have a set of Stations of the Cross in our church. My father's very attached to various sets that he knows or has, and I find some of the images helpful for meditation and prayer. I'm not, however, attached to the Stations of the Cross as a specific thing, in the same way that I've used prayer beads in the past, but am not attached to them as a specific process or requirement.

I genearally agree with the post about Corpus Christi, and I like the way Sam discussed the shift in emphasis of the phrase "corpus verum".

Sally bemoaned the lack of symbol in her tradition.

I find symbology very useful, too, and wouldn't want to lose it. It's when the symbols are used as more than that that I get unhappy, because I see this as a move to sacramentalism: moving beyond the sacraments to regarding objects as having a sacramental power. The reason, I think, that the bread and wine are special is that, as part of a sacrament, they are the body and blood our Our Lord. The Bible is special (and I still find it difficult to see people writing on a Bible!) because it's the Word: God's working in this world through the agency of the Holy Spirit.

KT suggested talking to the PCC.

I don't think this is needed, to be honest. I'm not worried about the legality of the service at all, and have already discussed my concerns about confession and absolution to my training incumbent (I'm in the first year of my title post, and not yet priested!), who was very supportive.

Neither am I worried about the service itself for general consumption (James has dealt very helpfully with the particular phrase that I picked up, and I acknowledge that his introduction is a good piece of guidance to the congregation), but what I'm trying to explore is how elements of the service - and, in many ways, the core assumption (now, _there's_ a word to reflect on...!) behind the service just doesn't fit with my theology. (I'd be interested to hear your situation, by the way, KT, if you'd like to share).

I rather hope that this isn't the end of it. I'm really enjoying this discussion with you all, and making myself think. This, for me, is Reflective Theology (cue Gary turning up in a day-glo jacket), and is a Good Thing[tm]. I'm not trying to inflict my theology on other people (yet...), but I'm interested to see where I'm being led with this, and it's to a re-affirmation of the protestant underpinnings of my theology and my faith. May the Holy Spirit guide us all.

Labels: liturgy, protestantism, theology, worship

To venerate or not to venerate: that is the question

On Good Friday, we have a service entitled "Veneration of the Cross and Liturgy of the Passion". This is taken from Common Worship's Good Friday Liturgy (though the service isn't called that in the relevant booklet), and includes this as part of the introduction (also not part of the booklet):

During this service a crucifix is brought into the Church and we all have the opportunity to come forward in prayer and adoration. As the crucifix is brought in we proclaim "This is the wood of the cross" remembering that our crucifix is a spiritual help in contemplating the Cross of Christ. As we come forward we gently kiss the feet of our Lord and Saviour, or bow our heads, and give thanks for the tremendous gift of Christ who shared our humanity and suffered with and for us.

The service uses the reserved sacrament, rather than consecrating on Good Friday: a practice which is traditional, and which I quite like (although I've previously enjoyed an ante-communion, where we start a service, and then finish it abruptly just before the eucharistic prayer).

Unluckily, I have some major problems with the service theologically. The first two are easily dealt with: there is no confession or absolution before receiving of the sacrament. I'm very unhappy about this, but we're going to have a hymn with a confessional element, and I think we'll put in an absolution.

The third issue is a more major one for me. I'm unhappy about the veneration of the cross. To me, it feels like idolatry. I know I'm coming over all Protestant on this, but I think this is an extension of one of my first major theological feelings, when I was very uncomfortable about a Roman Catholic service I once attended of Corpus Christi, where the host was processed - paraded - around the cathedral. A clergy friend of mine (from a more catholic tradition than mine) notes that:

[t]he first dictionary definition [of "veneration"] says "a feeling of profound respect for someone or something". Surely we can have profound respect for the representation of the cross because of what it represents.

First of all, I not sure that I agree with the definition, and secondly, I'm not sure that we can. How can you have respect for something, rather than somebody? He also makes a comparison with a picture of somebody, to which we might be attached, and compare it with a representation of a cross, to which we might be attached. But I don't think I can be attached to the cross, although I feel strongly that it's a powerful symbol and reminder of the person who died on it and who I worship. I think that part of my concern arises from part of the liturgy:

This is the wood of the cross, on which hung the saviour of the world.

All come, let us worship.

Now, maybe I'm being too critical, but it's not clear to me what the object of our worship is supposed to be. The obvious answer is that it's supposed to be the the subject of the preceding sentence: "the wood of the cross". I think that's a legitimate reading of the text, and if someone were to come to it with an unnuanced theology, then I think that might be what they thought was going on. And I don't believe that we should hold a cross as worthy of worship. Or any other object. Or anything other than God - the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, three in one and one in three.

The veneration of the cross is an old tradition - and a catholic one. There's nothing wrong with that, but I feel that the liturgy that's been put together within Common Worship goes too far towards what I believe are the errors of (certain types of) (mainly Roman) Catholic practice.

I know that I'm in danger of condemning practices which are very helpful for many people, and I'd stress that I enjoy ceremony and tradition and liturgy in many instances. But this feels like a step a little too far for me. It's made me think hard about other aspects of my worship - receiving a blessing before the Gospel reading (is it the book that's being blessed, or the reader and the reading?), kissing my stole before putting it on (is this to allow me to reflect on the responsibility I am taking on, or veneration of an object?) - but I think that's a good thing. In many ways, I'm a reformation protestant - or Reformation Protestant - but I need to understand how (and whether) that can be reconciled with more recent theological insights.

I see all of this as part of my growth and development as a minister: I appreciate comments and thoughts. And prayers, of course.

Labels: catholicism, liturgy, theology

Liturgy

Once a month, we have a team communion service which aims to be informal - but orthodox - and it's my turn to come up with it for Sunday. It's been significantly harder worth than I expected, but I've got something ready now. I needs a little more work, but the outline's there. Basically, I need to come up with a short talk/sermon, and may be some pictures to accompany it. James will be relieved to discover that after around 45 minutes playing around with photo-editing software, he's not going to appear on the projection screen as Pope Benedict XVI or some random cardinal.

Labels: liturgy

Renewal of covenant service

(backposting) There's a great Methodist service which they tend to run once a year to renew the covenant with God, and we also have it once a year on the course. I really like it: there are some good readings, and it makes you think, too. An interesting sermon from Richard, too. Before that, we had a short "what you need to know about Canon law and taking services in 45 minutes", also by Richard, which he did quite well, I thought.

Back home: Moo not very well, poor thing.

Labels: ERMC, liturgy

To London Colney

(backposting) I got there with a little time to spare, having left a little late, but having enjoyed the cricket on the way down. We had a service based on the Syriac liturgy, which some people found rather difficult, particularly the last hymn, which was to the Virgin Mary. I found that I was able to sing it - doing some pretty quick theological thinking as I sang it - but I also noticed that more than a few found themselves unable to do so.

Labels: liturgy

Suffolk Show

Today was the day of the Suffolk Show. Not the only day, and it's not as if we were all going. But Jo was going with Mel, and she (Mel) arrived around 0700 to pick up Jo: they were gone by 0730. And it was quiet. Yes, Miriam was around, but she was quite sleepy. We had a sleep, I did some work, had a bath, those sorts of things. It was fantastic.

Around lunchtime, Moo and I took Buster for a walk with Miri again. We're trying to make it a bit of a feature, as it's good for all of us, and we had a lovely time again. Moo did some more work, and the health visitor came around. She's happy with Moo, and happy with Miri (57cm long, 5.38kg heavy - just under 12lb).

This evening in front of the TV, I finally got round to writing part of one of my "Life and Service" module assignments. We were supposed to create a liturgy for a major festival (I chose Good Friday) for a congregation that we knew. The second half of the assignment is to discuss the decisions made, and I know where I'm going with that.

I wrote a liturgy for a service with Jo, for Good Friday. I'd constructed a little one off the cuff for Palm Sunday, after we missed the benefice service, and it worked very well, so I thought I'd try it again. Jo had just turned 2, for reference, and Miri hadn't yet been born.

Good Friday

A liturgy for Josephine

Instructions are in italics. All other words are to be spoken by the adult. It is important to be ready to adapt the liturgy to accommodate Josephine's reactions, or to follow up on questions.

Preparation: tell Josephine that we're going to have our own special service, walk up to the church together.

Enter the church with Josephine. Pick up a hymnbook.

• Let's go up to the front and start the service.

Walk with Jo to the front of the church.

• Shall we sing a song now? A hymn about Jesus? You can sing too, if you like.

Sing “Lord of the Dance”.

Go to the altar rail, and sit down.

• God, please help us talk to you and do what you want.

• We've come into church for a special service, to say thank you to God, and to say sorry for things that we shouldn't have done.

• Shall we kneel down on the cushion?

Kneel down on the altar rail cushion or a nearby hassock, and help Jo to do the same if she wants to.

• Jesus tells us that we should say sorry for things we shouldn't have done, because he loves us.

Hold hands.

• I'm sorry for the times I haven't done what I should have done, particularly when I've upset Jojo or Mummy. So “sorry, Jojo”, and “sorry to God” as well.

• Jo – sometimes you need to say sorry, too, don't you? Shall we say sorry to God?

• Sorry God.

Give Jo a hug.

• God loves us very much, just like Mummy and Daddy, and he says that everything is OK because he loves us.

• Thank you God.

Stand up.

• Right, shall we read the Bible now?

Pick up Jo, walk to the lectern.

One day, Jesus went with his friends to a garden near Jerusalem, but one of his friends was feeling very nasty, and when some soldiers and other men came, he told them that they should take Jesus away. His friends tried to stop them, and one of his best friends, Peter, even hit one of the men. But it's not good to hit people, and Jesus told him to stop.

So the soldiers took Jesus away, and they were horrid to him. In the end, a man called Pontius Pilate talked to Jesus, and asked him lots of questions, but didn't really understand what Jesus said. So he asked the people who lived in Jerusalem, and they didn't like Jesus either.

So Pontius Pilate made Jesus go on a cross. And Mary, Jesus' mummy, came to see him with one of his friends, and she was very sad because Jesus hurt lots and lots. And in the end Jesus died, and all of his friends were scared, and they went away.

Give Jo a big cuddle.

• But don't forget that Jesus, although he died, came back to life, because he's so special and is God's son.

Let Jo down, lead her back to the altar rail, sit down on the cushion.

• Now let's say some prayers. Is there anything you'd like to say thank you for? Or anyone who's not very well? Who are your best friends?

• Jesus, please look after Mummy and Daddy and Jojo and the baby in mummy's tummy. And Megan and Wills and Buster, and Nana and Wa-wa and Granny and Grandpa.

Include any suggestions from Jo.

• Please make all people who aren't very well feel better, especially Grandpa's eye. And look after Mummy and the baby in mummy's tummy.

• Jesus, please look after everyone who's died, particularly baby Tommy and Suzy. Look after them and all the people who love them so much.

Sit Jojo on your knee, give her a big cuddle.

• Let's say a special prayer that Jesus said to God and told us to say:

Our Father, which art in heaven,

hallowed be they name;

thy kingdom come;

thy will be done;

in earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our trespasses,

as we forgive them that trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation;

but deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom,

the power, and the glory

for ever and ever.

Amen.

Stand up.

• Let's finish the service:

• May God look after us and keep us safe for ever. Amen.

Kiss Jojo, hold hands and walk down the aisle together out of the church.

Labels: family, liturgy, walk

Liturgy

(backposting) Jo and I went up to the church to catch the Palm Sunday service, only to discover that it was taking place at a different church in the benefice, and had started around 30 minutes ago. So I decided to create a little liturgy that Jo would enjoy and understand. We had a confession - where we said sorry for things - an absolution (an adapted version of the collect for the 21st Sunday after Trinity), a reading (a simplified version of the Palm Sunday reading - the Entry into Jerusalem), some intercessions, some thanksgiving, and we sang "Lord of the Dance". Jo seemed to enjoy it, and I think it was a rather good service.

I'm supposed to be putting together a liturgy - and reflection on it - for Harvest, Christmas, or Good Friday, and I'm thinking of doing one similar to today's, but for Good Friday. For just me and Jo, maybe Kate (Moo's mum) as well.

On a different note - I've been meaning to do a clean(ish) install of Ubuntu on my main machine for a while, and got round to doing it last night, which meant that I was a little late to bed. Not because it went badly, but because I went better than expected and I got more done, which is good. Luckily Jo slept well, and we did a bit of relay sleeping in the morning to top ourselves up.

Went for a lovely (if slow!) walk with Moo (who can't walk fast at the moment, but does maintain a steady pace) and Jo (who can walk fast, but stops for every puddle, stick, tree-stump and plant). Oh, and Buster - who kept running between them to check that they were both OK.

Labels: linux, liturgy, walk

Work on music

I finally started getting down to some work on a special mini-course that Helen's working out with me. I'm going to be looking at how music and liturgy and transcendence work together. I've started by getting a bit of a feel for how music fits into Orthodox Christian liturgy - including downloading some Russian and some Greek Orthodox liturgical music (legally) - and also having a start on music in Coptic and Ethiopian Christian liturgy. I even found some videos on youtube which gave a really good taste for how it can be used. Here's one clip, of a Coptic service. The music is overlaid, but is beautiful, and you can also see how the service works.

Labels: liturgy, music, orthodox